If you want to attract an honorable lady, be an honorable man.

Tuesday, August 27, 2013

Five Sure-Fire Ways to Ruin the World

For all of you gear-junkies out there, I am not referring to how to hurt the planet with a flashlight. For the rest of you who didn't get the joke, just move on, it isn't worth explaining.

: )

Anyway, we spend a lot of time talking about how to do this and that of the Christian faith, but we don't spend a lot of time talking about what to *not* do. I want to tell you 5 things that I think that will wreck the world as we know it if we do them. Some will be pretty wildly accepted across the board - others I am sure will raise some Cain.

Ready for the apocalypse?

Live your life for yourself.

If you want to see the world you know and love crumble around your ears, shut out everything you know you should, push them far back into the recesses of your blackened mind, and do as you please - no rules, you call the shots. Whether it be the secular drink, party, and rock'n roll, or the more saintly version of do your own existential godless do-gooder exercises - Living for yourself will destroy the world. First off you are not obeying God, and He certainly will not bless you for that, second of all, human nature is wired to think only of himself, and will do anything he wants to get it. Living for your own pleasure will lead you to some of the most horrendous roads imaginable - you will simply not believe all the horrendous things that have been done through the world in the name of 'pleasure'. I know at the moment it seems so simple - so easy - what could possibly be wrong with it?

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Matthew 16:24 

But every great camel that ever careened through a tent started by merely sticking his nose in.

That wasn't to controversial right?

Ignore what God is calling you to do

You know that one thing - that one thing that bugs you really bad in the world or society, or that one thing or topic that gets you so enthusiastic, so driven to go out and accomplish, save the world, or merely fix a small situation. You know what it is for you - it may be music, it may be art, it may be abortion, but whatever it is, whenever it gets brought up, somebody dropped a match on a gas-can under your seat and you go up in flames for your cause.

God gives you those passions - for that's what they are - for a reason. That's his way of telling you what His goal in life for you is, and what he wants you to do.

If you want to see the world crumble, sit back and let the important piece you are in the puzzle sit on the sidelines and let the world do its thing - surely it won't miss you as it slowly dies and rots away from lack of people not doing anything for God and his Kingdom.  

 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: Deuteronomy 11:27

Don't have lots of kids.

Big no-no for any die-hard earth-wrecker. Any serious economics chap - like the Muslims - will tell you that if you want to take over, maybe not quickly, but definitely, you have loads of kids. Oodles of them as a matter of fact. America right now is at a staggeringly low birthrate of 1.8, if I believe, but due to illegal immigration, I believe it pops us just over the necessary 2.2 per couple. Muslims are somewhere around the 5-7 per couple I believe. They are right now taking over Europe by mere birthrate - they haven't gone in with nukes and rpg's - yet, but are slowly replacing the ever-dying European population who refuses to have children themselves. So if you want your family, your religion, and your way of life, to slowly die off and watch a foreign religion and foreign culture take over bit by bit, then kids are a complete no-no. Not an option.

 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward. As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate. Psalms 127:3-5

Don't eat healthy

Starting to get a little figity? I said there would be some things you might not agree with, but really, this one really can destroy this planet, and wreck the lives of all our descendants for years to come, and unless they themselves change and eat healthy, they will wreck their own progeny.
The effect of modern processed food on our bodies is staggering. From GMO corn, to MSG in basically everything, to round-up ready crops, to genetically modified food, to 'sugar' on food labels that is really GMO sugar beets instead of cane sugar, to the constant supply of sugar in everything under the sun, unless you research it, you will simply not believe how the modern american diet that more than likely you are eating, is destroying your body in more ways than you can ever know.
So if you really don't care about the future generations coming down the pipe - go ahead - crack open another coke, and here, have some more chips and cookies. I think your grand-kids just winced.

 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1 Corinthians 6:19

Get involved in politics

Yup, I know, you think I really stepped in it on this one, but let me explain.
Politics nowadays is two things - electing new leaders, law makers, law deciders and the such, and passing new laws to make people do things. I know, a brutally simplified version of politics, but I think about anything that goes on in politics can be narrowed down into one of those two categories. And even then, most of the first category can be narrowed down to those who enforce laws.
So what's wrong with that?
Getting involved in politics has a couple of main problems - one, is that by trying to put more and more laws, and enforce more and more laws on the people, you are telling all those unsaved people out there exactly what you believe - that more laws, and more mere obedience to law, will save the world. We are supposed to be telling that Christ and his grace will save the world, and what do we do? Vote to make a law to keep the liberals off our backs - we vote to have less taxes - we vote, we vote, we vote, we make more and more laws to try to get the world to where it should be be forcing everyone to obey what we think should happen, and institute punishments if they don't.
Take just a second and look at almost any average law out there - it is some form of making somebody do something, to try to reach a desired goal.
What goal?
Peace, and a Godly society.
Folks, we will never ever make a Godly society by making everybody obey Godly laws - we will only have a Godly society if the hearts of men repent and turn to God, and then only.
Still don't believe me?
Let's see if I can prove it.

What do we (Christians, not the world) do when we want abortion to go away?
We try to outlaw it.
What do we do when stupid kids drive dangerously?
We make a law on how old they have to be when they drive.
What do we do when Liberals come for our Guns?
We try to make a law that says they can't.
What happens when the government comes from our kids?
We try to make a law that says they can't.
What happens when the government tries to hush up Christianity?
We try to find some law that says they can't.
What happens when evil kids shoot up a school full of kids?
We yammer for a law to make guns harder to get to.
What happens when the government tries to set itself up as law?
We try to find a law that says they can't.

Do you see what's happening? We are trying to change the culture by forcing them to do what we think they should, when the only way, ever, ever, ever, ever - let me say that again - to EVER. EVER. EVER. change a society, is to change their hearts - not their actions.   

Politics will destroy the world, because it is trying to make the world change its actions, and no amount politics and laws can ever change someones heart.

The other reason why all of these other laws and presidents and congressmen and such will destroy the world is because that is not how God set up the government.

The government is set up to bring God's justice to his people (Romans 13) and THAT'S IT. God has said his law is sufficient, and we are not to add and take away from it.

 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4:2

God has just said his law is sufficient - period. If you wake to make more laws you have to make the claim that the laws God set out are not sufficient.

And before it even gets brought up, I am not talking about ceremonial laws - those were done away with Christ and the new covenant. I am talking about the ten commandments, and the case law implications spelled out afterwards. Granted, it is not perfectly clear in all areas exactly how to call situations, but if we don't stop at what God has said is law, then there is no limit as to where to stop making laws. God's word is enough.

 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16

So yes, if you want to destroy the world, get into politics and try to save the world from the outside in - right now the rest of the world is doing a smashing job of that, and I am sure they would love your help.

So there they are - five surefire ways to destroy the planet. Anybody out there who is up for the daunting task of laying low our Lord's creation, behold - thy Manual.

Only by following God and his word in our hearts, can we, or anybody ever at any time in History, ever save the planet.



  1. I totally hear where you're coming from on politics, but I don't all the way agree. We aren't going to get to start from scratch like the pilgrims and founding fathers. Laws do not create a righteous society, agreed. I think all of us can agree that our current system of government is "broken." What then are our options? 1) To stay completely aloof and watch our nation slither head first towards destruction, 2) To jump in with both feet and push for this law and that to restrict this or that, or 3) To recognize that we have a responsibility to the watching world, and systematically, quietly, one home, one county, one state at a time, work for reformation. The Old Testament lays out a pattern of government by Godly men, with a track record of obedience and honor. We're not going to get back to that by throwing our hands in the air and letting go of the reins. We must be at the forefront of the the battle, striving to defeat the heaps of laws that are being pushed on us. I don't think you can scripturally argue for christians opting out of politics altogether. I found Voddie Baucham's sermons on Romans 13 very helpful. They're available on Sermon Audio.

    There will never be a society that is all christian until Christ returns. So how do we handle that? By enforcing God's laws on unbelievers to maintain order. Will it save them? No. Will they be white washed tombs? Yes. But they will have no excuse. If we were all perfect people, there would be no need for any laws beyond "Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself." The very existence of Exodus and Deuteronomy proves that man needs more guidance than in his own heart, even a heart which desires to serve God.

    Let's take an extreme example: murder. The vast majority of christians won't ever even consider murder as a solution to anything. Murder belongs, as a general rule, to the unsaved. Yet laws regarding murderers are laid out. Boom - imposing God's laws on the unsaved. Now following that argument just a bit further, abortion is murder (I won't even bring birth control into the argument). Think of the implications of that. Who is responsible to put to death murderers, including mothers who choose abortion, doctors who perform them, nurses who help, and fathers who allow it? Scripturally speaking, the "elders," the ruling body of a nation. These elders were distinct from the church. We're not talking church government here. This is an issue of civil disobedience.

    It's been made very clear that homosexuality is a sin that belongs to the unsaved. There are laws to deal with that. Again - imposing God's laws on the unsaved.

    Ok, I'll stop there before this gets any longer :) I think that one of the great challenges of our generation is going to be learning the proper roles of civil government. We've lost so much ground, it's going to take quite a bit of conversation, debate, study, sharpening, and prayer to "fix" the system.

    1. Ok, let me first clarify something. I am all for enforcing Biblical law, and Biblical law ONLY. I totally agree that there are certain laws in the O T that 'force' things on people - but that is God's law, and the way God's law works. That is totally OK in my book.
      What I disagree with is people trying to make and force laws on people that are not punishing crime, but are *trying to make the result of a Godly nation without the people being Godly* I.E. speeding, drunk driving, weapons laws, etc. Those are laws trying to produce what would naturally come from a Godly society (basically just loving your neighbor as yourself, and how that applies in society) Without having the prerequisite hearts following God - it's wanting the money without the doing the work that you have to put out to get it.
      You say we have three options - do nothing about the law - do something with the law to fix the law - or to do what we are supposed to do.
      That seems like it actually can be broken down into only two categories - use unbiblical methods, or don't use unbiblical methods - because our system today of president, congress, legislature, etc., has absolutely no biblical basis, but is just plain old humanism. The Constitution states that it is the supreme law of the land- the founding fathers (not pilgrims, but rev war era) set themselves and their president up as God - they made what man says the ultimate law of the land - period. That is 100 percent totally unbiblical. Our fathers may have been Christian, but if you read the Federalist and Anit Fed papers, there is not one whit of Biblical doctrine in those books - it is 100 percent secular and humanistic.
      So anyway, I believe that the Constitution is totally unbiblical, and cannot find an biblical ideas or forms that support it.
      I do however totally agree that we should have a judicial system - but a judicial system only, since that is only what we see in scripture. That is not enforcing the results of a Godly people down the populous’s pipe - that is merely enforcing GODS law, and not MANS law.
      But anyway, your list of options had a theme to it - all of them assumed that the only way to change a nation is from the *top-down*. You gave the options of do nothing politically, follow the average standard conservative platform, or do what's right politically. All of those come from the assumption that politics is the only way to go to actually change a nation.
      I totally disagree with that. The only way to change a nation, to turn around a society falling apart is to start from the *bottom-up*. If want to change the society so that they won't speed anymore, you have to get their hearts first. If you want to stop employers underpaying employees, you have to get their hearts first. Making a law, no matter how moral and right it may seem, if it is above and beyond God's law, is trying to do just that - go for peoples actions and not their hearts.
      "3) To recognize that we have a responsibility to the watching world, and systematically, quietly, one home, one county, one state at a time, work for reformation."
      Exactly, but the only reason we ever got to county and sate is because we started at the *individual persons*, and then we went to the *church*. I am totally against sitting back and doing nothing - but I am also totally against trying to bring about that desired change through politics. If we want to change the world, we must first change *our* hearts, and then our friends, and start encouraging them to follow God in their hearts.
      Then, and only then, all politics aside, will we ever change the world. That is why I am focusing on encouraging my peers and immediate circle - to try to change the world from the bottom up. I certainly am against doing nothing, and I certainly am for doing something, but I think the thing we all need to do is to stop trying to fix people and start going after their hearts. I think that only then can we really ever change the world.

  2. Ahh, the top-down, bottom-up argument :) Good place to start. I should have stated my position on that more clearly. Yes, the only way to see real, meaningful change in society is to start in the hearts of fathers. Absolutely. No bones to pick there. "The thing we all need to do is to stop trying to fix people and start going after their hearts." Yes. I should also point out that I'm not trying to suggest that the world can be made better by politics. All creation - everything - is suffering the agonies of sin. I've seen some sadness this month to prove that. I know y'all have as well. Politics won't take away the consequences of sin. But that doesn't mean we should stay out entirely.

    I guess rather than push too many more points, it might be good to clarify some things. First, are you arguing for a theocracy? What is your vision for returning to a Biblical form of government? Not starting fresh, but taking us from where we are to where we should be.

    My aunt talks about when she traveled to Russia as an exchange student. I guess part of traveling as a student before the collapse of the Soviet Union involved sitting through some lectures (propaganda) on communism. You know my aunt, she's a very grounded, intelligent person - not flighty, she knows what she believes and she stands for it. Yet the speakers were so convincing, made it all sound so good, that she was sitting there, beginning to go "Yeah... Yeah... Ok." And then it hit her like a ton of bricks. NO. This is bad, it's lies, and she snapped out of it.

    Have you read Animal Farm? Fascinating book, I love it.

    That wasn't a bunny trail, I promise :) What I'm trying to point out is "They" have a plan for getting from where we are to where "They" believe we should be. It's all laid out in "Their" minds. It's being shoved down the throats of kids, night and day. Every nation has it's own battles to fight, for us it's Socialism. They're loud. They're busy. Christians need to be involved in politics, not to introduce new laws, but to oppose those who are fighting for ungodly ideals. We have to start backtracking somewhere. Assuming that each of goes out in our own sphere of influence and shares the gospel faithfully, assuming that we see a revival in our nation from the bottom - what then? I'm reading in Kings and Judges right now. Where did Gideon start? By tearing down a major area of worship. Josiah destroyed the high places. A recurring theme among the kings is that this one didn't tear down the high places. That one almost had it right, but he left the high places. At some point, christians are going to have to stand up and start tearing apart the laws - well over 200 years worth of laws - that are now in effect. You speak of the constitution as unbiblical. I know you've studied it far more than I have and can support that statement. Very well then, how do you propose dealing with that? (Not being sarcastic, really wanting to know how you would handle that.)

    Do you see where I'm coming from? Bottom-up, yes. But restructuring a government - practically, what does that look like? Not because restructuring the government would change the world, but because obedience to God's law would demand it. I guess I fail to see how you could return to a righteous form of government without involvement in politics.

    1. Yes, I have read Animal Farm - fascinating book, as you obviously know. :)

      You say we shouldn't stay out of politics entirely, but as politics nowadays is, it is nothing but top-down. You can't get involved in politics and somehow start affecting peoples hearts - all politics does is try to control actions.

      No, actually, on Theocracy. As I understand it (and of course we would have to operate on the same definition) I would not harp for a theocracy, because God does not speak *in person* to his people anymore as is commonly pointed out in the theocracy model. I would press towards a Judicial system of government, where no laws are made, applications are merely applied off of the Biblical Civil Law and Case Law, because that is exactly what we see in the early OT period.
      You make the statement that we need to do something to keep the government from ramming it lies down our throat (epic paraphrase for times sake....)

      I totally agree - but that still assumes that we are even obeying these bad laws they are trying to ram. The government has a hard time enforcing a law if NOBODY obeys it. Point being we are going to have to draw the line somewhere, and say thus far and no more. Where that line is per person ... well, that is why we encourage one another daily. If we are together on this, we could actually do something. Just saying that if the entire Christian population didn't bow the knee when Caesar tries to do what he shouldn't, he wouldn't get far.

      Honestly, I see our society burning down, and I think that instead of trying to patch up the sinking Titanic, I will merely pull out my own life boat as we go under. I am totally in favor of Christians starting the press towards a new government, one based solely on God's law. To address the problem of the Constitution, it is not something I think we are even able to try to go back to, since that system of Government is totally unBiblical in itself. It gives powers to men in the government that are not laid out in scripture - blatantly going outside of the role of government that God has established. To go the way of the constitution, you have to make the claim that the Bible is not totally sufficient in-and-of-itself for EVERYTHING.

      So really, my entire argument hinges on the sufficiency of Scripture. The scriptures in no tiniest amount even show anything like the Constitutional form of government, and the Bible lays out the role of what Government should be - to punish evil (as defined in the OT case and civil laws) and to praise good. Not collect taxes, not make laws (God said don't add to his law) not to feed the poor, nothing. God said it was to punish evil. The Judiciary system we see in the early OT fits these parameters perfectly - taking and applying God's law, the way he said it, to law breakers (God's-law breakers) and punishing them as the Civil law and the Case law leads. That is the summary of my point - the Scriptures is all we need for political theory - period. No fancy law theories needed. The way we got the Constitution was through men trying to rule other men who they thought were not adequate to rule themselves, and they said so. Madison, hailed as a hero by modern Christians, was one of the leaders in the charge to rule over the simple, less educated people who were obviously not able to make the decisions for themselves.

      And yes, Christians should fight the upcoming lies - but you don't fight lies with laws. You fight laws with truth, and the only way to effectively communicate truth is on the personal, family level, not trying to implement it through politics.

      Continued in next comment - Blogger is getting cranky at me....

    2. This should make blogger happy - they don't like comments over 4026 character - goofy people were obviously not foreseeing political argument taking place in the comments.
      Anyway, to pick up where I left off...

      You say Christians need to be involved in politics, not implementing new laws, but fighting the new bad ones coming in. What then? Then we are still stuck with 200 years of garbage just sitting there.
      "...assuming that we see a revival in our nation from the bottom - what then? I'm reading in Kings and Judges right now. Where did Gideon start? By tearing down a major area of worship. Josiah destroyed the high places. A recurring theme among the kings is that this one didn't tear down the high places. That one almost had it right, but he left the high places. At some point, christians are going to have to stand up and start tearing apart the laws - well over 200 years worth of laws - that are now in effect."

      Precisely. He didn't go and try to fix the system he destroyed it and went back to where it was supposed to be. I think the time will come when, if the hearts of the people turn on the whole, then it would be legit to tear out the years of garbage and start where God said we should have started in the first place, because then re-doing it is not all about forcing the rest of the people to do what we want, but it is about implementing God's law, God's way. I think then, and only then, can we do it, and to me all other reasons seems pragmatic and short-sighted on the whole.

      I find it fascinating how Christ went about changing the world when he was down here. He didn't run for Caesar, he didn't try to make new laws, he didn't even tell his disciples to do that after he was gone. He told them to go out and make more disciples. Honestly, I think that right there is the key to changing the world. If Christ himself went about it that way, why should we do any differently? What type of intellectual higher ground do we think we have reached when we think that Jesus obviously didn't know the best way to change the culture?

      I see everything in scripture pointing towards a man on man, woman on woman, piece by piece changing of the culture. The whole thing about the kings, and them not tearing down the high places and such, to me is a moot point, since the whole system of kings was not condoned by God, and in fact, He made it pretty clear that wanting a king was rejected God, not man. I also find it fascinating that the first reference you hear of 'kings' in the Bible, is the bad guys.... odd.

      So basically, to answer your last question, you do not return to a righteous form of government through politics. It goes back down to the heart level of fathers, like you said. If the entire nation starts following God, then, and I think only then, can we get a new version of the government running.

      Whatcha think?

  3. I think I need some more time to process this conversation :) Usually in political debates, I'm the one arguing for smaller and less. This is new to me, to be the one arguing for more. Especially odd, because I feel like we're starting with the same presupposition (Sufficiency of Scripture), but coming up with different practical applications. I don't want to bog down your comment section, but your arguments do beg several questions. Hmmm… Going to cogitate on this for awhile and get back to you.

    1. Do they 'beg' several questions, or do they 'raise' several questions? Begging a question is when there is when there is a logical fallacy in an argument, raising a question is just where a certain statement gives rise to a question. Which one were you referring to?
      But thanks for talking through this! I really enjoy it, and no, you weren't bogging it down at all. :)
      It was the first serious blog debate I have had in a long time, and I look forward to seeing where it goes. :)

  4. One question here to re-spark the debate *evil chuckle*

    Where is the difference between "pulling out your own life boat", as you say, and working for the good of the land you live in?

    1. Hmmm....
      Well, that is a good question, and I assume you are referring to the Israelites in Babylon.
      When I say pulling out my own life boat, I mean that when the government crashes, we have our own system up and running, a Godly one, to replace it. So that was what I was referring to there.

      As for working for the good of the land - I guess we wouldn't get far until we determined what we were calling 'good'.
      Some people would use that line to argue in favor of politics, calling the result of more laws or less laws and such and so forth 'good' I wouldn't define that as 'good', and would define it differently.

      What angle are you taking on this, oh evil chuckler?

    2. Aha, Lisa asked one of my questions for me! And yes, Stickler, you're right - You're raising questions for now. Correction accepted :)

      My take (and I'm very interested to hear yours as well, Lisa!) on "the good of the land" is that fewer laws are not "good." It's merely "better." Better than bad is not good, but it can be a few steps closer to right. Meaning that I don't see anything wrong with stepping backwards as opposed to waiting for a momentous crash before starting from scratch. And just so it's out there, this is not suggesting that you vote for the "lesser of two evils." That phrase has no business in politics. You don't vote for Romney to keep out Obama. Romney was not a better option than Obama. Neither of those men has any right to the vote of a christian. But, mostly in state elections, we do get the option to shoot stuff down point blank. Not bring in something new, just toss out the old, one thing at a time.

      What do you mean by "a system of our own up and running"? Something like the Amish or Mormons? But how would you handle actually enforcing laws which are illegal in the US (i.e. executing murderers and adulterers)?

      Israelites in Babylon... Daniel was one of the highest officials in the country. Joseph in Egypt. Esther and Mordecai. Righteous people in positions of influence.

    3. At least SOMEONE agrees with me that you don't vote for Romney to keep Obama out. I don't know how may times I had to argue that before elections..... *sigh*
      But that does bring up a good question about how to proceed from here. I have heard some say that we don't settle for less than what is right in a situation, and anything less is compromise. I have also heard people say you go piece by piece backwards, settling for less than the goal each time, but working backwards towards the goal. How do you see that?
      As for our 'own' system, I honestly don't know how everything would play out - God told his people to deal with stuff like that themselves.... so I don't really know how we'd do it. And besides, in what I am talking about, we wouldn't really have a US anymore, hence a new government. :) I would get all the Christian families we could together and start, as a community, a judicial system of Government, applying Gods laws, like the Jews did. I think if it came to that the already dying government couldn't do too much. So that is my view there.
      Well, I don't see those examples the same way you do. In all of those circumstances mentioned, we know that they were all placed there, basically by force by the Statist government. They didn't go running for a powerful position so they could make a difference - they got forcibly slapped there with no real option to say no - I don't see those correlating to today's system. If you got chucked into being a governor, then I guess you go with that, by those examples.
      What I do see, in interacting with today's government, is encouraging the leaders of today to follow God's law alone, as Paul did. I think that could be legitimate - but I see nowhere Paul or any others actually trying to get themselves involved in the politics of the day, they merely told the rulers to follow God, and they wold pay if the didn't.
      Even David being made as king - he was placed there, not running for office.
      Shooting things down..... say, did you ever get a holster?

    4. So you're saying just sit and wait while the country crumbles and then come to the rescue with the new "God's Law" system?

      I think there's a balance - and I'm not quite sure where it is - between (1) diving in head-first and trying to rescue a cursed and crashing country that actually needs to crash and burn, and (2) sitting back twiddling our thumbs waiting for it to crash.

      The thing I struggle with is trying to find that line....being influential enough, but not too much. Is voting too much? Maybe in certain cases, yes, other cases, no.

      In your ideal system, David, how do the people running it make it there? God doesn't speak directly to us now which makes things a little foggier.

    5. Yeah, when we were watching the polls, I have to be honest that a wee tiny part of me was a bit relieved that Obama won. I think that anyone who isn't liberal has their guard up higher against Obama. I think that many people would have become more lax and apathetic had Romney made it in (because he was considered the "lesser of two evils"). None of that had any impact on how I voted, it was just a thought that occurred to me.

      Annnnyyyhooo. Moving on - The question of anything less than right vs a piece by piece backwards is definitely a tough one. I think that as far as we are able, we shouldn't settle for less than right. I think that's kind of been pounded into us, as homeschoolers, too. Excellence. Everything is about excellence. We have these eclectic curricula in order to be the best that we can in any given subject. And yet, Sanctification is a process. Uncle Joe and I have talked about this several times. Salvation could have been Jesus coming to earth, dying, being resurrected, and voila! perfect christians. But that's not how God chose to do it. We are still battling sin, seeing through a glass dimly. So there will always be an element of stepping towards righteousness, without fully attaining it on earth. We are under fallen authorities, too, authorities whom we've been commanded to obey, nonetheless. Not blindly swallowing whatever we're told, but using discretion in which hills we die on. That wasn't exactly a black and white answer. Your thoughts?

      I see what you're saying about the leadership examples. Makes sense.

      Haha, holster.... have you ever noticed that our conversations always manage to creep back around to either guns or superstitions or both? No, actually, you'd be so ashamed of me - I haven't even shot my gun yet :( :( :( Things keep coming up on Sundays, so we haven't been shooting in awhile. There's an indoor range in town, but I don't really want to go alone (man, does that sound whiney!), because most guys treat me differently when weapons are involved. So I think I know what kind of holster I want, but I haven't purchased it yet.

      Just curious - can you point to any times in history that there was actually what we would consider a Godly form of government running?

    6. @ Lisa
      *Head in hands*
      "(1) diving in head-first and trying to rescue a cursed and crashing country that actually needs to crash and burn, and (2) sitting back twiddling our thumbs waiting for it to crash."
      There is still this assumption running through this - why is it that the general american populous assumes there are only two options - affect the world = politics. Watch the world burn = do nothing.
      Why do we keep assuming that? Why do we assume that just because we do not affect the world the way the world says we should, that that automatically means we are doing nothing about it at all?
      I think it is a wrong assumption, but it is still an assumption that seems to under-gird all of political arguments in the era we are in.
      Sorry, rant over. :)
      *breathes out*
      As for sitting back and letting the system burn down, then replacing it, I think I would have to say yes - the only other option is trying to start our own now - executions and all. I don;t really see that in scripture - the Israelites had to wait to get back from Babylon to set up the temple again.
      As for people running, well, I guess I really don't see that in the OT. It seems like it was a 'choose from among yourselves' type of thing - it didn't really seem like you ran for office. It seems like you just got chosen, because of a gifted knowledge and wisdom about applying the law of God.
      So, I guess that is how I see it, but like you said, the scripture isn't clear on *all* the details.
      But of course, it still is sufficient. :)

    7. @Lisa
      Sorry, that last comment was a bit.... um... it had a lot of gusto to it, that probably didn't need to exist, and frustration and the like were leaking through hither and yon - yeah, so, please forgive me. :(

    8. Forgiveness granted....I've often had to apologize for the same thing :(

      I understand the assumption you're pointing out, but I think we are defining "politics" differently. You see it as running for office. I see it as whenever private citizens are involved in any way. i.e., voting.

      At this point, I agree - America basically needs to go down before it's going to come back up. My problem is what does that practically look like for us as Christians? Are there times when it is right to vote, and times not? Are there men we can back for President...or is that entire function un-Biblical? And the list goes on....

    9. @ Desert Rat
      I know what you mean. One way seems realistic, yet pragmatic. The other way seems idealistic, yet the standard. So is calling for the standard being unrealistic? Or is being pragmatic the wise option? It seems to be a no-out situation. Grr...
      I agree about not taking whatever the Feds pass us on their official platter, and making the judgement calls on what to die for - totally there.
      But another thing - at this stage in America, meaning with the legal setup and such, is it even possible to work our way back legally? Or have we built such a web of laws and do's and don'ts that it is legally impossible to go back, until the entire web is destroyed? I am afraid I simply don't know the massive legal web that well to answer that. Anybody?
      Haven't shot your gun? Naughty naughty Desert Rat - you know better. :/
      As for a biblical system in History, actually yes - right after God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments, they set up a judicial system that merely applied the laws that God gave them to their specific applications, which fits perfectly into the Romans 13 guidelines of "punishing wrong, praising good", and that's it - no more, no less. That setup seems to me to be ideal, and the sytem only went out when the people turned their back on God and wanted a king for themselves 'like the other nations."
      So, thar she be - my theory. :)

  5. Howdy Country Boy, good medicine- great post. If I can get some time in the next couple of days, I might try to throw a saddle on #5 and see if I can't ride it a bit. Take care.

  6. Howdy Country Boy! Just a few thoughts on the US Constitution. I will be the first to acknowledge that it ain't perfect, BUT it is what makes up the governmental body of my native land. I don't mean for this comment to take away from your thoughts on an Old-Testament-style judicial system----that system of government proved itself to work for more years than America has even existed as a recognized nation----but there is one thing that keeps me hanging to the Constitution:
    "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king as supreme; or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men." 1 Peter 2 13-15
    The ordinances referenced are not traffic ordinances, noise ordinances, weapons ordinances, building ordinances, "affordable health care" ordinances or any other of man's foolish attempts to play God; the ordinances spoken of are differing forms of government. My first point being that the Lord don't care so much for what type of government men ordain, but is rather concerned that it enforce God's law. In this way the ordinance of man in 1 Peter 2 can be one and the same as the ordinance of God in Romans 13. Could the Constitution be improved? Sure. But does this condemn it to the scrap pile. I have to say no, I don't believe so. My second point is that God can and does use the mistakes men make, and he can even put his hand of blessing on it. I hope to illustrate this with the following observations: #1. In 1 Samuel 8, the people of Israel rejected the kingship of their Lord. This was evil. #2. In 1 Sam. 12, Samuel testifies against the people for their wickedness, calling down thunder and rain. #3. The people feared and sought mercy from the Lord. Samuel did not require the people to repeal their call for a king, but basically told them to live with their mistake in the obedient fear of the Lord. #4. I find it significant that God himself chose Saul to be king, who was then known as "the Lord's anointed". #5 When Saul fouled it up, God did not say "I told ya so!" and require Israel to return to former ways, but rather "He chose David also his servant....to feed Jacob his people, and Israel his inheritance." Psalm 78:70-71. #6 The Lord also gave the throne to David's seed forever "...that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem..." 1 Kings 11:36 This promise is of course fulfilled with THE son of David enthroned as the King of kings. In light of these observations I believe that with the proper additions/deletions that the Constitutional republic of these united States can bring as much honor and Glory to the Lord as the judges of old.
    Thanks for the thought provoking post. I sure don't got it all figgered out, and am always open to the thoughts of others. Anyhow, that's just a few thoughts from my neck of the woods. Nuff said for now. Take care.


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